The “Torture” Memos Vindicate Bush Admin
The release of the so-called Guantanamo “torture” memos that was designed to embarrass the Bush administration has had the opposite effect. Â Far from embarrassing the Bush administration, the memos vindicate it. Â Click here for one of the memos. (The pertinent parts illustrating our care are highlighted for a fast read).
In an ironic twist, this will backfire on the Obama administration because it makes the Bush administration look great! Â And it won’t have the effect conservatives fear in that it gives all our secrets away, because few in the terrorist world will believe it! Â They think almost everything we do or say is a lie and they will no doubt believe this was a publicity stunt that gave away no real information. Â
The memos detail the lengths we went to – to protect prisoners from any lasting harmful effects from these interrogation procedures and clearly show that they weren’t torture.
We also now know that the tough interrogation techniques used on Khalid Sheikh Mohammad prevented a terrorist attack on Los Angeles. Â Detractors of tough interrogation techniques have said repeatedly that these techniques don’t bring quality information becuase the prisoner will tell his interrogators whatever he thinks they want to hear in order to make them stop. Â They make this claim repeatedly and are never questioned on it.
However, the evidence shows this claim is false. Â Khalid Sheikh Mohammad did indeed give quality, actionable information that led to the breakup of an east Asian terrorists cells that was planning a 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles .
For anyone who cares about American security and freedom, please download this memo and read at least the highlighted parts so you can have the facts when you talk to your friends about this topic.
You people make me sick. How you can go on here about the terribly immoral and despicable acts of torture we committed is just outrageous.
There is no difference in the torture we committed and an act of terror. I think Muslims are justified in their outrage against us. I don’t care what these memos say. They were obviously written by Bush lackeys to protect the administration’s image.
Isis
Typical ad hominen attack about people who view this issue differently. You even hold yourself out as some super-person and know, without any proof, who wrote these memos and why. Gimme a break!
You just don’t get it.
These terrorists have no morals. They use innocents as shields; they blow up civilians; they decapitate on a whim.
If you want to question the morals of a president, question PRESIDENT OBAMA, A MAN WITH THE MORAL OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THIS COUNTRY BUT WHO CHOOSES TO PROTECT THOSE OUT TO HARM US–TO ANNIHILATE US–TO HURT US IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.
Applaud PRESIDENT BUSH WHO KEPT OUR HOMELAND SAFE AFTER 9/11 BY MAKING TOUGH DECISIONS. Did you even read about the precautions taken while these methods were used?
Grow up, Isis, and get the facts.
Wendy, I think we were attacked because the terrorists hated George Bush so much for the arrogant way he pushed America’s beliefs on everybody. Thank God president Obama isn’t doing that. Don’t you see that his new openness and honesty will actually make us stronger in the world? Don’t you see that a nation that doesn’t torture will have the moral high ground and then we’ll be able to demand that the terrorists stop their acts.
But as long as we’re torturing the ones we’ve captured, I don’t see that we have any moral right to tell them to stop attacking us.
And no I didn’t bother to read about the precautions. I thin that’s all spin designed to make Bush look good.
Once again, I have to remind you of the facts. In 1993 (Clinton presidency) the World Trade Center was attacked. Let’s not forget the bombing of the Cole in Yemen, the bombings of the embassies in Africa, or the debacle in Mogidishu (sp?) where our soldier was dragged through the streets and then Clinton abandoned the rest. This is not new nor did it begin with President Bush. And, please, let’s not forget that on 9/11, we were attacked. My community lost 5 good, innocent souls on that day. I think we need to do whatever it takes to make sure that doesn’t happen again. I value human life and if I were president, Isis, I would do anything I had to in order to protect yours.
ISIS,
While I will do my best to think of you as a sincere patriot of the US and our interests, I find your argument lacks any sophistication whatsoever.
President Bush took office in 2000; after one attempt at blowing up the World Trade Center, one attack on the U.S.S. Cole, one bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kenya, and several other less significant attacks.
If, as you stated, these attacks are now due to our lack of moral high ground, what were all of these previous attacks? Warm-ups for when we actually lost this supposed high ground.
You made an impassioned plea asking Wendy, “Don’t you see that a nation that doesn’t torture will have the moral high ground and then we’ll be able to demand that the terrorists stop their acts.” Really? You expect to be able to make demands of men who take no pity in cutting off the heads of those they disagree with?
In all of my years, and all of my studies, I have never heard of, or read of, or known anyone who HAS heard of or read of a single terrorist act having been stopped by “moral high ground” or “openness and honesty!”
The only thing to date to have any effect on such nefarious actions, is the strength of arms and the willingness to use them to defeat such enemies. We can argue all day about what is and is not torture. At the end of the day, I am sure you and I will have different measures for that definition. In the meantime, we are fighting a tough and determined enemy who means to do us harm. You don’t have to listen to people like us on the Conservative Right to hear that; if you look and listen, you can hear those words directly from the mouths of that enemy.
They have not backed down, they have not altered their position, and they have not equivocated in their goals. They mean to destroy the west. They are not crazy, or disenfranchised, they are committed, homicidal killers with an agenda.
Your words, or supposed lofty principles, or deluded openness will not save us. In the words of one, Winston Churchill – “We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” Fortunately for you and your kind, there are still people like me who raise our children to believe that defending the weak is still an honorable goal.
I don’t expect you to get that, but I do hope for your sake, and the sake of your loved ones, that if the time ever comes when your family is threatened by those who would do them harm, you have the good sense to know, your openness and honesty will not save them. Only your might! If you have none, let us pray that others, less squeamish (like my son) are there to protect what you cannot or will not.
It gets worse.
Obama Overrides FBI and DHS on Gitmo Release
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/04/obama-overrides-fbi-and-dhs-on-gitmo.html
Now onto the topic I originally meant to post to.
Jonathan, what I find most interesting is the shifting sand under the democratic argument. Their point today isn’t even that Enhanced Interrogation methods do not work, but that such information could have been gathered from other means. That is a typical tactic of the left; once their argument is defeated, the grounds under which it was made will change.
That said, I think it is a fair question. Could we have gained such relevant information by other means. The challenge to the left though becomes the context. We are not talking about some theoretical, “Can we get the answer we need by less coercive measures?†The question at the time, and in the moment was, “This bad guy knows something about a real threat to our nation. We have a finite timetable for figuring that out. What do we do?†I often wonder how the left would argue the morality of letting that attack happen for the sake of some imagined “moral principle.†What moral obligation is owed to the real victims of such an attack?
Recently I was listening to an interview with Peter Zeihan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OvE988bfN4)- VP of Strategic Intelligence with Stratfor.com. He made an interesting point that seemed relevant. His contention was that Enhanced Interrogation for the sake of a fishing expedition is a very ineffective tool. Specifically because the recipient will invariably make any story up to make the session stop. However, in a specific threat scenario, his claim is it works quite well. If you have a specific person, with specific information, about a specific attack which you already know about, then the tactic makes sense, and is effective.
Yep, that’s a great point! Being liberal means never having to say you’re sorry! The minute you’re proven wrong just change the subject or pretend there never was such a subject! I heard Obama say he was against these forms of interrogation because there were other ways to get the information. Sorry, but what I didn’t hear him say was – what are those other ways!?
I don’t know of any other way. And this one worked.
One thing is quite clear… not to say there will be a terrorist attack under Obama’s watch, but if there are plans for one that we could have found out about only by these methods – we won’t find out about it. So the likelihood of an attack greatly increases.
Isis – technically I suppose we could tie the detainees to a chair and make them watch tapes of Janeane Garofalo but even that would be too much I think. Listen, any woman who has ever given birth has had more pain and permanent body issues since than Khalid Sheikh Muhammad had from waterboarding. He still gets to read the Koran daily (delivered with gloves as they felt Americans were unclean), he gets 3 hots and a cot, and has all his fingers, toes, and incidentally his head, which is more than he left Daniel Pearl or Nick Berg with after he sliced their heads off. So to sum up, his ‘torture’ left his body just fine, they USE THESE TECHNIQUES on OUR MILITARY TRAINEES for heavens sake, why isn’t anyone crying about that? It’s too much for the architect of 9/11 but not too much for our own military trainees? Quit whining and save the drama for your mama.
mwhisner said: “what were all of these previous attacks”
None of those attacks was anything like 9/11. 9/11 came AFTER Bush. Therefore Bush is responsible.
“I’ve never heard of a terrorist being stopped by moral high ground or openness and honesty”
Oh really? Well I don’t see them attacking Sweden. And I don’t see Sweden doing any of the immoral things we’re doing. Can’t you see mr or ms mwhisner that they’re people too just like the rest of us?
They resent being lied too – like all of us do. Can’t you see that when an American president finally steps up to the plate and says “yeah, you know what? my country has made some mistakes” that that kind of openness and honesty is bound to be so refreshing to them that it will rob them of their motivation to attack. i just don’t see why you people can’t understand they just need to hear us admit that we’ve done bad things to them, to come clean. they need that validation. and i think once they get it then they’ll want to work with us and get along.
you think strength comes through being a bully. I think it comes through being a good friend.
Hmm..
Jonathan,
While I personally abhor torture (which is what we classified waterboarding as during the Korean war after it was used on our soldiers there, which is why it has been deemed torture now…), I think the Bush Administration made one crucial error.
Don’t you think it would have been better to properly convict them as enemy combatants first, either through an expedited criminal court or through the military, in order to justify their detention, and then interrogate them? I think this would have alleviated the problem we have now which is we can’t hold them, and we can’t try them because any sane person is going to know that whatever statement we get out of them will have had to have been recorded while under duress. Basically, it would be a forced confession. So then we have to let them go…which, if we can follow them into Pakistan and keep them under surveillance, might lead us back to even more terrorist sources. But that probably won’t happen.
OMG – I just read some more. This is legal advice seeking permission to conduct the SAME TRAINING on Gitmo detainees that was conducted on ME. They didn’t seek legal advice as to whether is was OK to do this stuff to me. I was told I HAD TO!!!!! And I am a BETTER person because of the training I received.
WTF??? This is an INSULT to every member of the Armed Forces that has been through SERE school. This is an INSULT to the intelligence of EVERY AMERICAN PERIOD.
HOLY CRAP!! Are you KIDDING ME????… Read More
TORTURE?????? TORTURE??????????
I say again. TORTURE????? YES, I AM PISSED AS PISSED CAN BE RIGHT NOW.
Wait, I just thought of something else. Janet Napolitano is more worried about our returning veterans being threats to national security than she is of muslim extremists. Remember the Dept of Homeland Security memo that came out last month??????????
ANOTHER insult to our Armed Forces.
OH YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME. PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!… Read More
WHAT UTTER CRAP!!!! Talking about a snow job. Man, have they been trying to pull one over on the people of this country. You would have thought the guys at Gitmo were searing peoples eyeballs out with torches and drawing and quartering the detainees between humvees.
This is nothing more than a GRADUATION REQUIREMENT at the US Air Force Academy.
Yes, a REQUIREMENT!!!! Period. You can be a Rhoades Scholar with a 4.0 in Aeronatuical Engineering, but if you don’t pass SERE, you don’t graduate. END OF STORY.
Torture??? We put our own people through worse. MUCH worse. Try BUDS school for the Navy SEALS if you think THIS is torture. My freshman year at a military academy was worse than this for crying out loud.